Over at Searching for Hedgetorides there is a brilliant article debunking an antifeminist myth about Domestic Violence studies.
It's very Australia-Centric in that it talks about an Australian study and is debunking an Australian antifeminist, but I'm sure international readers might be interested in it.
9 comments:
Hi, Thanks for the link. I'm glad you liked my article.
Take care,
Alex
Not so soon, A-AF and Mr Alex,
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-proofs-07.pdf
I actually just starting to read that one when I got your comment.
Coincidences.
Alright. I read it.
basically it shows a number of ways that feminist studies are often flawed.
How this disproves that _antifeminist_ studies are often flawed is beyond me.
Honestly: That article didn't refute nothin'
It simply proves that current anti-violence campaigns which usually source their statistics from 'feminist studies' are biased against men and fathers.
The MRA's don't deny violence against women, but at the same time feminists should not deny violence against men.
Just like Mr Alex tries to 'debunk an antifeminist myth', what he ends up supporting is a feminist myth - that's the nature of the feminists-v/s-MRA politics. So basically, both sides end up proving the other side as flawed.
And if you are still not convinced that violence is reciprocal...this should help you a bit. Why don't feminists, who claim that men and women are EQUAL, find it difficult to admit that men and women can be EQUAL in committing and suffering violence too?
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As long as anti-violence campaigns(White Ribbon Campaign) are one-sided(men as abusers and women as victims), they will not work, they are inherently faulty.
I don't know if I can believe the dissertations that _all_ (or even most really) feminist studies are biased.
Just that quite a number of them are.
No surprise. As we saw from the two separate articles debunking the methods used in very specific MRA tests. MRAs are also using faulty methods skew the numbers in a way hich seems more favourable in their cause.
You know what that is? An attempt to take funding from viable womens organizations with a false claim that the money needs to be spent evenly.
Yes - mens support is important, but don't lie to get it.
You say that Alex has proved feminist myth? No. He hasn't. Thats something Straus as trying to do.
Alex =/= Straus.
Their articles say quite different things.
Alexs articles were not disproved by Straus's Straus's were not disproved by Alex's.
Alex's article points at very specific flaws in antifeminist studies, and you know what my friend?
Pointing ou similar flaws in feminist studies doesn't make the antifeminist sudies magically better.
You give me a slew of references which "prove" your side, but in Straus's paper he mentions that the feminist statistics are on over 150 peer review journals.
So clearly numbers of things that can be referenced isn't something to be trusted, and thats what the paper _you are banking on_ says.
All this little example has shown me is that both sides skew things to their favour. Guess I should have seen that coming, what with statistics being manipulated by all sorts of groups for all sorts of reasons.
"Why don't feminists, who claim that men and women are EQUAL, find it difficult to admit that men and women can be EQUAL in committing and suffering violence too?"
Well I think the general idea is that men and women are equal, 'cept for how differently society treats 'em, and what differences that societal training gives them.
Its not about dudes being more naturally aggressive and prone to violence.
It's about dudes being taught as they're growing up that they have to be manly, tough and aggressive and what that sort of socialization does to a person.
Women have their own negative socializations too, for example thy aren't taught to be outright aggressive so they're often passive aggressive.
Men and women should be equal, but they 'aint yet. thats the problem.
Actually going over it, I can't find the bit that says there are more then 150 per review journals with feminist studies in them.
Perhaps I was read that from a different MRA website and accidentally mixed the two together.
At any rate numbers of references on a page aren't convincing to me.
The point remains that both sides accuse the other of fudging statistics - what's convincing for you may not convince me and vice versa. In other words, feminists keep debunking 'antifeminist myths' while MRA's keep debunking 'feminists myths.' It's a never ending cycle which keeps sociologists and researchers busy, and employed.
All this little example has shown me is that both sides skew things to their favour.
That is the point I was trying to make. While flaws in feminist studies don't 'magically' increase the accuracy of antifeminist studies, they reduce the credibility of feminist studies, which are the basis for most(men bad, women good) anti-violence campaigns(White Ribbon etc.), which, then, should make us question the motives behind such campaigns. I still believe that an anti-violence campaign which presumes men guilty and women innocent will not be very effective - half the wounds are left unhealed.
Men and women should be equal, but they 'aint yet. thats the problem.
Men and women are not equal, equality of opportunity can only go till a certain limit, beyond that you step into equality of outcomes, and there the egalitarian dream shatters. At some point, both men and women will need to make compromises... Till then,
Thank you, and good luck.
"I still believe that an anti-violence campaign which presumes men guilty and women innocent will not be very effective - half the wounds are left unhealed."
I don't know if its quite that simple. Way I see it there are lots of different groups doing different things.
There's more then one anti-violence campaign right? I mean, not just gendered, but things to do with race, sexuality and surely other factors that I'm forgetting.
N'thats cool.
I don't know. I rather like the idea of different groups going about anti-violence in different ways.
So long as the other side gets told - that women can be abusive and that men shouldn't have to put up with it no matter what. I'm cool with either group really.
Nice talking to you. Have a good one.
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