I keep hearing that there is no pay gap. That the "pay gap" exists because studies don't take into account women leaving work after having babies, or that a large amount of women work in part time low paying jobs. (Out of pure choice no less.)
So to that I just want to say bullshit is all. To quote the article:
"So let's just get this straight right now, says Murphy: That 23-cent differential is not because some women take time off to give birth or raise children. The pay-gap figure measures only women and men who work full time, for a full year. It does not include women who took time off during the year or worked part time."
I hear that women have low pay because they're typically not aggressive negotiators, so they end up short changing themselves by on average negotiating for lower starting wages then men generally do. (Where how much they get payed for the next job gets based on how much they were paid for the last job etc.)
I'm down with that. it makes sense. Hearing someone make this argument, and also make the argument that the wage gap doesn't exist. Well... it's startling is all. If women generally have lower pay because they're not good negotiators, then... I mean the start of that sentence was "women generally have lower pay" right?
The thing that gets me about that is that if women are less likely to be aggressive in negotiating, isn't that a reflection of the fact that women are trained in society to be passive while men are trained to be active and aggressive? I mean, that seems like a symptom of the way women in society are trained to be feminine. In short, it seems rather patriarchal.
The people who point out the pay gap doesn't exist due to patriarchy, it exists due to womens own lack of being aggressive are often the same people who will say that domestic violence doesn't affect women more then men, and that women are equally aggressive.
Either women are less aggressive (due to sexist societal training, in my opinion) and that accounts for the pay gap - or men and women in this society are equally aggressive. It doesn't seem to me like it can go both ways.
*Remembering that I define patriarchy as systems that benefit men at the expense of women, and not women being deliberately exploited by men, all men. Patriarchy is a society thing that benefits men. Saying "women perpetuate it" doesn't stop it from being patriarchal.
6 comments:
Because I imagine it's a lot more unofficial then that. I don't think employers are thinking "This is a woman which means I can get away with paying her %X less then a man, so they're cost effective"
I think it's more, they go through the interview stage, women are to be less aggressive when negotiating and from there they get paid less.
It's not about how little a company can get away with. Not the same as illegals at all.
No I think it's more they need to be aggresive when it comes to actually doing work and getting results than making excuses.
I'm not going to publish your last comment, since it was pretty much nothing but a stream of pointless insults helpful to no-one.
I will answer this though:
"You ask why employers wouldn't overpay women to do nothing"
No. I don't. Because I don't assume women do nothing. That you do is both interesting and amusing.
I think it's funny you're telling _me_ off for having prejudices. I really do.
Also - the idea that women aren't as likely to negotiate doesn't stem from my jello brain. It stems from statistics, as well as having read some things by HR managers.
http://www.womendontask.com/stats.html
If all you are going to do it insult me, your comments won't get through. 'Aint nothing in the world compelling me to allow random dudes to insult me.
I already told you to fuck off.
Hey I just found your blog :-)
Just wanted to say I love your writing
I'll jump in with this point, cellycel:
Women are often not rewarded for promoting themselves (being "aggressive") like men are, because they are expected to be more passive, whether they actually are or not.
Women aren't just randomly deciding that, yes indeedy, the socialized passivity is just fine with them -- it's that, when they overstep the bounds that society has set for them, such as having the audacity to jockey for the raise they deserve, they are routinely punished by the establishment (i.e. not getting the raise, for starters) because they weren't acting "like women".
Aggressiveness (as it relates to work, i.e., being 'pro-active') is a trait reserved for Teh Menz. If a woman acts this way, she's called 'uppity' or 'bitchy' or some other gender-based epithet.
Yeah. Right on. *nods*
Its not that women are all "I'm going to be less aggressive and thus make less money!" its that she's trained if she's not passive then she's a Bad Person n'she gets punished for it.
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